Honing Your MedTech Message: How to Be Memorable in Two Minutes with Tino Chow

Hey, good morning, everybody. We're gonna start letting people in. Fry, you got that?

Yes.

Great, thank you. Ugh. So… We have one minute left, before we…

Co-host, please?

Sorry. Or make co-host. Confirm. Done.

Gangs.

Okay. So, Francesca's going to be promoting people to panelists. Feel free to decline. If you get promoted more than once, it's… Not trying to bother you, it's just a… you know, there's no clear, clean, and easy way to do this. So, while people are joining, I would like to put a question out there to any of the, panelists that are joining, are you working on anything exciting and new in the final two weeks of the year? Do we even have two weeks of the year left, do you know?

I don't think so. I mean, it's the 19th. I can't believe it's the 19th. That's, like, one week left, more or less, coming in the year, and yeah, I can't believe I'm saying that. It's been a… Like, you just kind of slip right by.

So, I saw this really interesting post. It was, like, drawn on toilet paper, practically. It was a timeline of 2025, and it was… January was long, February was a little bit shorter, and then the months just kept getting shorter and shorter, until they were all stacked directly on top of each other with like, September, October, November, December, just written over each other. They weren't even, like, you know, taking up a full half inch or anything. They didn't have their own line. It was just like… And that's the way the year has been.

October 8th.

I, is anyone joining us as panelists, or are they all declining? Well, okay, so we're gonna get started. And I met Tino, recently in Philadelphia at the MedTech Symposium, from… What's Dwayne's group called? MedTech…

with MedTech.

Project MedTech. Project MedTech. So, yeah, I got invited to the conference in Philadelphia. It was fun. I don't do a lot of startup stuff, as you guys know, but, the, startup community, in Philadelphia, I'd like to be a more active part of that community, and so that's sort of, you know, what thinking about, where did my screen go? Zoom? Sorry. And, I met Tina there, he was one of the speakers at the conference, and, you know, he was telling startups, you know, basically how to be memorable. What was interesting was there were about 10 startups that pitched.

And I'd be lucky if I can remember two of them at this point. What happens at pitch events is it's like waves, and each wave comes along and wipes out the memory of the last one, so unless you're taking really good notes during all of that. Which I was not, then you're like, oh! And then you see the person in the hallway, and you don't have any memory of, like, who they are or what they did. you know, that could be just me, but, what I find is that you know, it's funny you're wearing the TED Fellows shirt, you know, like, TED Talks work the same way for me, they're all the same. You know, all the pitch decks are the same, all the slide presentations are the same. And, you know, my whole life has been a fight against mediocrity. You know, it's been a fight against all these people thinking that everyone else does it this way, therefore I have to do it this way. And so, this is my setup for Tino, is how to be memorable.

How to make your MedTech message memorable, and this is equally true if you're a startup. Or an aligned service provider, or a consultant, you really don't want to sound like everybody else. Take it away. What do you have for us today?

Yeah, thank you, Sean, for that introduction. Yeah, it was really nice to kind of meet everybody, and yeah, so I'm here to talk a little bit about storytelling, and I'll probably kind of start with, this is a learned skill for me. This is not something that I'm born with, and I made a lot of mistakes kind of in my career, to get to the point where I was like, I need to get more focus and, to get a better understanding of how to master storytelling. So, the easiest way to get to know me is that I'm a three-headed monster, and I definitely feel like a three-headed monster at that very event that Sean kind of described in Philly.

And by the way, I have, so, I have a… non-technical background. I was sitting on a panel. Kind of with, kind of folks that have kind of deep technical expertise, go-to-market expertise, it was, What were you talking about? Have… FDA approval pathways, and I'm like, oh my goodness, like, what in the world am I doing here? And it's like, I cannot answer any of those technical, Kava, questions, and I think how Duane tried really hard, kind of, as the facilitator of the, of the panel, to kind of, like, throw me kind of questions, kind of to talk about why being memorable, kind of, is so important.

So, kind of backing up a little bit, I'm a three-headed monster. I have a ops, head, katsumi, a creative head, and a business head. So a really long time ago, kind of… It's been maybe 22 years that I've been commissioned as a military officer, software's hand what good operations look like, and why that is so important. And then, naturally, kind of the next step is to go to art school. So that's what I did, and I acquired my second head, and I studied industrial design. At a time where… but right before the iPhone came out, kind of right before UI UX had a name, and design thinking was just getting started.

So, that was kind of when I got my degree, and then the 2008 kind of recession kind of happened, right as I was graduating, and I was trying to figure out what I was supposed to do with my life. So, a couple of my friends come from a neighboring kind of college have said, hey, why don't we just go out and ask people? how they fell in love with the work that they do, and how they're creating impact. And that idea kind of spread like wildfire. My friends were the ones who put together a business plan. And immediately, I was like, that is interesting. what do you mean I can go ask people for money to do what I want to do? So I was like, there's something there. And so we put together this conference, and the aha moment came when the speakers that we brought together that I wanted to really learn from

Basically said the same thing. You can have the best product in the world, but if nobody knows about it, you don't have a good brand, you don't have marketing. Nobody would know about it, and it will fail. But… If… even if you have a great product. Great brand and marketing, but outside of a sustainable business model, you will never see the impact that you want to create. And that got my attention. That got me thinking about, kind of, how business, is one of the key tools to create impact. So a big part of my career in the last, kind of 15-odd years have been really about bringing these, kind of, three heads together, and working with a lot of, kind of, innovative

founders, and most of them in the healthcare and also in the climate space, to basically take, oftentimes really challenging, ideas or really complex science to be able to kind of communicate that kind of simply or effectively, to first get funding. And then, even if you get funding, you're still met with plenty of skepticism. How do you cut through the noise? How do I, from a storytelling and brand-building perspective, buy the idea and the founding team enough time and space for it to take hold in order to create the change that they are looking to create? So, that's just kind of a little bit about me, and, kind of today, I'm gonna talk a little bit about, kind of, how…

To kind of, kind of formulate, essentially, kind of that 2-minute personal pitch to make yourself memorable. So, I'm gonna share my screen, and I have a quick deck, to kind of go through, and then a bit of an exercise at the end that I'm gonna ask, kind of for some volunteers. So… Alright. Everybody can see my screen, I assume? Alright. Okay So, this is a company I run, it's called Giant Shoulders. We're a strategic kind of branding agency who builds, brands for challengers, to punch above their weight. And really, kind of what we define as challengers are startups. Startups fundamentally have no credibility yet, because it's brand new.

or you're the David in the Sea of Goliaths. How do you kind of use brand as a discipline and as a tool to cut through the noise and punch above your weight. So that's the work that we do, and we do that kind of with, both kind of new companies and, like I said, sometimes established companies that have new ideas that they want to, kind of test and bring to market. So, I just want to start here. Have you noticed that communications with human beings is not always logical? I would say, it's never kind of logical. And this is why. It is biological. So, everything that I'm going to talk about today is rooted, kind of, in neurobiology. So, this is not the woo-woo, kind of like, hey, this is an art, and I'm going to teach you this art. I want to kind of root everything in science to really understand how do you crack the code in effective communications.

So I just want to, talk about the two halves of our brain, not the left and right hemisphere, but specifically kind of the neocortex and your paleone cortex. So for the actual scientists out there. you can back me up, or you can… well, I would just want you to back me up. So, like I mentioned, two halves of the brain, your paleomammalian cortex, or in other words, your lizard brain, is really kind of where it controls, kind of decision making. But that's not the part of your brain that controls, kind of, your language or decision making. So that's in your neocortex. And this is kind of why we have

Phrases like, my gut feels. I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't… something is just off. So, this is kind of… this is kind of where your payroll mammalian, cortex is processing a set of information that perhaps kind of your neocortex aren't kind of privy to, and don't, can't put into words. And a lot of times, kind of, why this is important, as we kind of think about, kind of, human communication, is to, recognize that the decision-making part is not in the logical part of your brain, but on the emotional kind of side of your brain. So let's talk through, kind of, just an example, and I don't know if this has happened to you, and like I mentioned, this is a learned skill for me, and this happened to me, and still happens to me time and time again.

You talk to somebody and ask them, hey, do you have this problem? Yeah, I have this problem. Does my solution solve your problem? Yes, it does. Is this a price that you're willing to pay? Yes. Alright, here's the contract to sign, and then they say, oh, I need to think about it. So what's happening here? Logic, logic, logic. Emotion. you got your neocortex for the first three steps, and then your lizard brain kicks in and is like, okay, like, can I actually trust you? Like, why are you telling me this? This seems, like, too good to be true. Something is off, I don't know what it is, I can't put my finger on it.

So a big part of, kind of, what we do, kind of, with branding and storytelling, is really about, how do you get to the fourth yes? How do you, kind of, help, Kind of use, kind of, emotional, kind of, storytelling and branding to almost unlock kind of the part of the brain to let the logic sink in. Rather than, you know, kind of like Sean kind of mentioned earlier, you go to these, kind of pitch events, and everybody's just, like, showering you with logic, and then it just bounces off your head, because it all starts to become One and the same. So how do you kind of tap into the part of your brain? How do you settle that fight-or-flight instinct?

So that you can get people's trust and attention, and that the logic sinks in. So, before we kind of jump into specifically how we're going to do this, I'm going to just, kind of lay some foundation kind of here around kind of some storytelling kind of principles. A lot of this is based on my own failures, and I love this quote, kind of by Penn and Teller, and if you have ever kind of seen Penn and Teller kind of do magic. They tell you specifically how the magic is done, and yet… The sense of wonder doesn't leave you. So, I love this quote, the only secret to magic is that I'm willing to work harder than, than it…

I'm willing to work harder on it than, you think it's worth. And many times with communication, that is very, very true. I think we do a disservice, kind of, when we see a speaker who's like, wow, he's a natural, or she's a natural. I was like, well, you know what? Most of the time? The, the most effortless, kind of, presentations. Takes the most effort to kind of get there.

Could I just interrupt for one second?

Absolutely.

Oh, I love what you said about the fight-or-flight syndrome, because as a marketer, this is what we're up against all the time. The second you switch the language to a call to action, to any sort of sell intent, buy intent. What happens in the human brain consistently, studies have proven this over and over again, is that it triggers the fight or flight mechanism in people, and they either get angry, or they want to run. Okay? And so, it's really important that you understand that the second you say… and if anybody would like a call, please, you know, feel free to book time on my calendar. All of a sudden, you feel this tightening in your chest happening, and you're like, no, I'm out of here. So, you know, I'd love to hear at some point, more… more about

That, yeah, grief counseling, excellent point.

Yeah. No, I love that, and I think, hopefully, kind of, this section… this next section is really just me sharing, kind of, my experience, and kind of how I'll… I've learned to trick myself into it, and honestly, like, a big part of it, like, for me, is that I'm an introvert, and I have to almost kind of, like, build these kind of frameworks and use other people's frameworks to understand, kind of, what works for me, especially, kind of, when I pitch, and to build trust. And I love, like, how… just speaking for myself, I love one-on-one kind of conversations. I love one-on-two conversations. Again, one-on-three, that starts to kind of break down for me. But a lot of times, kind of, like, the skill set that I'm covering kind of today, the lessons I'm covering today, is really about, kind of, just how do you build trust, kind of not just one-on-one kind of basis, but also kind of one-to-many.

So, I'm gonna start here, and this is, kind of something that… I use quite a bit in my, in my, kind of, branding, kind of, lectures that, and it really applies here. Kind of your brand, and think about yourself as a brand that you might buy, as a consumer, your brand isn't what you say it is, it's what other people believe that it is. And I think it's just so important to kind of know that and recognize that. And what you do, the accumulation of kind of what you do, your interactions, kind of the things that you say, the way that you act, kind of that all kind of helps shape Kind of your perception.

And especially when you're on stage, and, you know, kind of… me kind of being here is such… is such a privileged kind of position to be in, because I'm just borrowing Sean's credibility over here to be able to kind of speak to you all. And I think kind of that's already, it's like, okay, there's already kind of that brand, kind of, that you can trust me because you trust Sean. And that's kind of where the perception, kind of really matters, kind of in the work that we do, is that perception drives drives behavior, and that behavior then determines, kind of, the performance. So even though, kind of, I think, as, like, kind of very… I'm sure, kind of, most of you are very, kind of, type A go-getters, like, hey, I have a purpose in life, and this is what I want to do.

We focus so much on performance, and sometimes, like, have we leave people behind, or we don't speak to, people's emotions enough, and we use logic over, kind of, emotion to be able to win people over. And so, I'm here to say that the logic is important. Don't get me wrong, the logic is important. The motion is the companion to that logic to help, kind of, drive that perception that can change the behaviors and kind of, and end with, kind of, performance. So, I'm going to share a couple of the lessons that I've learned. Number one, mistake number one, is not sharing your story because it doesn't matter.

Each and every one of you on this call, Have a story to tell. And I think how a big part of it isn't about how slick that story is, it matters that it is your story. And we'll jump into an exercise kind of later, kind of to help you start to think and craft, kind of, your story, and at the end of the day, you want to make that memorable. it's not just a story that, because everybody else is doing… doing this, so therefore I did this, so therefore you should pay attention to me. It's like, well, you just gave away all the reasons why not, why we should not pay attention to you. So we'll talk a little bit about that kind of later.

So, the lesson number one here is that your story actually helps provide context and builds trust. So, I'm gonna… this… we're using a little bit more startup language, but you can replace that, kind of, with, you know, kind of, whatever kind of role, kind of, you're in. And number one, maybe this is a little bit more about startups, and I had mentioned that earlier already, that startups, by definition, has no credibility yet. If you're applying for a grant, sometimes, like, you're starting from scratch, right? Like, even if you're in the academic setting where I kind of work with, PIs and other, CAP professors, cover in my university, you know, kind of that…

how do you sell yourself? How do you talk about, kind of, your own credibility? So, for a startup, the credibility comes from the founders, because oftentimes the founders are doing, kind of, some kind of work. They have, kind of, been, kind of dedicating their lives to a certain, idea, and they're here to bring it to life. And number two is a compelling story reveals why you are passionate about the problem you set out to solve. So not just about, I am… solving this problem, but a compelling story ties your passion to the problem. And then, lastly, is that a powerful story makes your current venture, or your current idea, feel like the inevitable next step of your own journey.

So this is not just like, oh, I'm doing this because it's gonna make me a lot of money. I was like, great, I don't know if I can trust you when the going gets tough. So… how does your story, how is it kind of building up to this point? I was like, I am doing this because of my years of experience, kind of in this field, and I had this aha moment, and it's inevitable for me to take this next step. Well, not as a research project, or a startup, or going back to school, right? That story helps tie all those things together. So, mistake number two is that I'm only responsible for what I say, and not for what you understand.

And I think of, this is kind of what we experience often. At those startup meetings. as founders, and I've made this mistake so many times, I get so nervous. I need… I only have 4 minutes on stage. I need to get all the information across. And I… and in those moments. I only am responsible for what I say, not when you heard me, when not it actually speaks to you, and definitely not when you understand what I'm saying. So, that's the number two, is to take responsibility for what's understood. And this is a… just a kind of a quick…

Can you guys hear him? Cause I cannot.

No, don't, Hero.

No. - Tino? You froze. Let's… How do we get him back?

If this connection went out, you need to wait, like, 1 minute. Yeah, it went out because it just dropped off, so it's gonna join back probably in a minute.

Anybody want to chime in? How do we like this so far? I like it. I think it's interesting.

Yeah, it's good.

Good message, right?

Yeah, it's a good message, yeah.

The, the takeaway would be how do we… each of us get smart about Telling the story powerfully so it converts, right?

So, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take the transcript from this call, and I'm gonna put it into ChatGPT, and I'm gonna say to ChatGPT, am I successfully doing what Tina was talking about? Or, am I failing, right? And I'm gonna ask for a grade. I recommend you guys do the same thing. If you want the transcript, just write transcript in the, in the,

Sorry about that, I'm now back.

We're glad to have you back. We're nice to see you.

So I'm semi in the dark now, I don't know what happened, kind of here, so.

Greetings from Rhode Island.

I, I know, I mean… This… this never happens, Keva… well, not…

I'm about to smile.

Very rarely happens.

very small state. That's the reason.

Yeah, alright, let me… Sorry for the disruption, can't hear, I'll just kind of… Let's see…

Well, we like it so far, we were talking about you.

Okay. Alright, that's good, that's good to know. Alright, let me, come reshare my screen here, and, I'll just keep going up here. So… I also got… I'm gonna go through this, and I would love to kind of hear some of your discussion and also kind of questions. So very quickly, kind of here, the lesson number two is take responsibility of what is understood, and the way to kind of get there is really kind of what I've here at the bottom. So, it's first figure out what you want to say. Write it down. then… Have a… take a step back, now that you've got all the information down, take a step back. And just consider your audience, and step into the shoes of your audience, and really kind of ask yourself, what do they want to hear? And things like, you know, maybe kind of, if you're a startup, you might be speaking to partners, you might be speaking to investors, you might be speaking to a general audience.

Sometimes it's helpful just to pick, like, who do you want, kind of, to speak to, and write down the questions. It's like, hey, this is what they want to hear. Then, what you can do is, like, kind of take what… all the information and all the set of questions, and then now we can start to optimize. Now we can start to bring the two sides together to really, kind of hone in on their understanding. And then the last, mistake that, like I said. I still make this kind of a mistake from time to time, is to only share data and information. So, like I mentioned, you know, kind of that, where, really kind of validating, kind of, Sean's kind of experience going to, kind of, pitch competitions, and, and kind of listening to pitches, is that, yeah, everybody's showering you with information, everyone's showering you with, with logic, and…

you don't remember any of it, because the speaker is putting that responsibility on you. So don't make that mistake, take that responsibility, like, it's similar to the lesson earlier on, to take on that responsibility. So, the way you kind of do that is to know your audience, number one, and to lead them with a clear story arc. So, I kind of learned this kind of, kind of from, kind of the official TED, speaking coach, that there's only really 3 main type of audiences. They have the expert audience. who, kind of, you want to speak to them rationally, or kind of… they're making decisions kind of rationally. And then you've got the novice, kind of audience, who knows absolutely nothing about what you do.

who is going to make decisions kind of intuitively. And then, so the last kind of audience, which is basically a VIN diagram that covers both the experts and novices, that ultimately we're human, and we make decisions emotionally. So sometimes knowing kind of your audience is just as important. Like, if you come into, if you're speaking to, kind of fellow researchers, and you're a researcher, and you start with, like, almost, like, oh, this is the reason why I got into, kind of, research, and this is why I fell in love with it, and trying to convince people that research is good. You're gonna lose a room, because they know, because they are…

part of, kind of, your community. So, how do you, kind of, use a emotional, kind of, narrative that actually kind of connects with them, rather than almost, like, if you do it poorly, you end up talking down, kind of? So, that's the first part, knowing your audience, and the second part is kind of, leading your audience with a clear story arc. So, something to kind of think about, and this is, you know, we're not going to dive in too deep into this, but the hero's journey, of kind of really knowing who the hero is in your story. who are you trying to help? Who are you trying to benefit? And then ask yourselves, like, well.

how are you serving your audience while you're talking to them? How are they better off after hearing your pitch? And I think how this is, once again, going back to the first point, is that we just are so focused on what we need to say that we forget That it's our responsibility to help them understand.

Yeah, I would just echo that point and say what I tell my clients, it's not about you. It's not about you, it's about them.

It is… yeah, it's something that… I need… we need to make a t-shirt, Sean, or you're gonna need to make a t-shirt, that just says that. And just, like, adds a reminder so I can see it in the mirror, because I need the reminder constantly. So just to kind of wrap up the section, and then we'll get into some Q&A, and also kind of a quick exercise here, is number one is that your story provides context and builds trust. Number two is take responsibility for what is understood, and three is know your audience and lead them with a clear story arc. So, I'll stop sharing for now, I'd love to kind of hear some questions, and then I'll share with you an exercise at the, at the end.

That was awesome. I'd like to point out a couple things about his presentation, that are really strong. A, the number of words per slide. Okay. Those of you in the room who like to put everything in the kitchen sink on the slides, we've all been guilty of it at one point or another in our careers. is… a no-no. Nobody wants to be faced with a slide that just vomits a whole bunch of information up on the screen, particularly when it's all the same font. Okay, so the differentiation between the large font and the small fonts, the colors that are chosen, the all caps, the use of the

image that people are seeing is just as important as the words that are on the screen. So, I would emphasize that this is an example of a very strong slide deck. That doesn't try to tell too many stories at the same time, does not try to provide too much information. And I think the fear that he spoke to is they're not going to believe me if I don't prove that I know everything. And nobody likes a know-it-all. you know, look at Martha Stewart, and how happy everybody was when she went to prison, you know? That's the example that I give about that, is nobody likes a know-it-all. And so,

part of being humble is being willing to say, I'm not the smartest person in the room, is being willing to say, there's room for other people in this conversation. And that… with that, I would like to open it up to you to respond to what you've seen, what you've heard. And to ask some questions about where you're… the stories you're trying to tell.

And also, by the way, I just put the presentation on the, in the chat.

Thank you. Don't make me call on people, because I will do it.

David, I see that you are speaking, but we can't hear you.

Hmm.

We still can't hear you. You're not on mute, but I wonder if you're using the right microphone. Or you can type in your… type in your question. Paul, I see that you came off mute.

You guys are watching me. Oh, yeah. You know, I'm a sales guy. I wrote a book on sales, so I'm in the other half of the equation, where if it hasn't converted, right, if you don't complete the transaction, you're in fantasy, is one of my, in quotes, poisms. Yeah. And, in modern… in modern todays, in 2025, I've stopped using the linguistic terms of marketing and sales. They call them prehistoric terms. Right? Because customers are seeking engagement, and the business is seeking conversion.

Yep.

Right? That's the value chain of… Otherwise… Why are we even speaking, right?

Yeah.

Is it relevant, and… but the… so I was… I was… I get what you totally get the value, the need, the, you know, the science behind what you're talking about. Question for you is… for the sake of the completed transaction, right? You get past the lizard brain, I'll get back to you, like you said, by phase 4, step 4. How does the startup Right?

Yep.

Or how can you share with us? What are the… what are the fundamentals… fundamental shift that we can make To look at it, look at this dance of engagement to transaction, so that we can bring in the emotions in how we speak and get away from features, function, value. Which makes all the logical sense.

Paul, I would love for you to answer the question, kind of being somebody who practices this, but I'm going to provide just one quick framework, and I genuinely mean that, because I do end up kind of working with a lot of salespeople, and I love kind of the, kind of what you said about. marketing and sales kind of being separate, you throw it over the fence, it's like, hey, salesperson, here are some leads. And it's like, well, these are garbage leads, I can't go sell them. And then there's this disjointed kind of experience, not just for the people in the company. But to the customer, you just lost trust and lost credibility, and you already don't have a lot to lose as a startup, and you just lost all of the little bit of credibility you have. So, I love that perspective.

So, in the work that we do, and I think how this might be kind of really helpful, kind of, kind of for everybody to hear this, and I think I've… Paul, you probably do this intuitively. is that… the way that we look at building relationships, it's simply a timeline. On the one end, somebody knows 0% of who you are and trusts you 0%. On the other end, they know 100% who you are, they are raving advocates for you, and they will go and tell the world about you. And I think a lot of times, as I come from a sales pers… Kind of as wide-eyed founders, we almost try to do too much, and spend too much time on individual founders, and then when they say no, you are… you get devastated. And I've been there, kind of, more times than not.

So, when we actually, kind of, work with our clients on, kind of, building up, kind of, that, marketing sales process, it's fundamentally about, kind of, how do you… how do you get people to know just enough, and this is important, just enough to have, well, actually, sorry, let me just back that up, back it up. So, How little does someone need to know about you? To have just enough trust for that first transaction. And this is kind of fundamentally kind of focused on, like, if you focus on relationships, the transaction will come one after another, but you focus on transaction, very few of them is going to turn into a relationship.

you know, kind of the impulse buy, kind of when you see something, in an ad, you might only interact with that brand probably once. I don't know how many of you use Apple, because somehow they have a direct line to my wallet and my entire family. I trust fundamental… well. Okay, now trust might be a strong word right now, but, for the most part, I trust the brand. It's like, if they come up with, you know, kind of a… well, a shaver come tomorrow. I'm like, I'm gonna get it, because it's Apple, and it's quality, and it's well-researched, and it's, user experience must be good. And I think how that's, you know, kind of going back to, sorry, I kind of went off a tangent there, but, so going back to kind of my main points, like, how little does your audience need to know about you to have that… have enough trust for the first transaction?

So if you're fundraising, maybe the first transaction isn't giving you money, but maybe that transaction is giving you the valuable time so that you can pitch them. And as you kind of lay that out onto kind of your timeline, and this is kind of what we call a relationship blueprint, it's not about kind of just making it cookie-cutter, and it feels robotic, kind of, from your… from the customer's perspective, or from your investor's perspective. This is just a discipline, kind of, on your end to make sure that every Everyone that you meet have the same high-level, high-quality interaction that you have when you, when you first started and when you had the time to spend with them.

So I just want to kind of share that kind of perspective, like, that is kind of the way that we look at it. So, to help… and I just want to kind of just wrap this up in terms of how little do you… does your audience need to know about you to have just enough trust?

And I want to reinforce that point with an example, and then an analogy. First is Tuscan Villa. How many baby boomers on the call start to fantasize about the Tuscan Villa with those two words, right? Those two words right there are enough to trigger just about any Gen Xer or baby boomer into salivation Pavlov dogs mode, right there. And I use… I've been using that as an example for a long time, which is the thing that you say should… Provoke the emotional response, that's exactly what I want. And so, if the 2, 3, 5, 10 words that you put out there for your audience

spark that response, that mental response, that's exactly what I'm looking for, that's exactly what I want, then you know you've hit the target. So, in answer to your question, Paul, that's the answer. But, here's the trick. it's like Perseus and Medusa. He couldn't slay the Gorgon by looking at it directly. he had to look at the reflection in the mirror of his… of his shield, if you remember the story, right? Marketing has very much become like that. If you go at somebody and you say, do you want to buy, and you start pitch-slapping people. their immediate response is going to be to turn and run, or to get violently angry at you, to tune you out, and to stop listening. So the path

To the customer heart. is through their desire, is through their aspiration, is through understanding their mentality and where they would like to be. So, to put it in terms of this audience, the two words that I would use are med tech millionaire. Who on the call would like to be a med tech millionaire, right? And from those two words, you start spinning the path to… desired goal, right? Now, the thing is, is that marketing is becoming increasingly complex with the introduction of the LLMs, ChatGPT, Claude, etc. And what is going to be your ticket, those of you on this call, to

Success is actually your story, is actually your earned experience, is actually going to be your expertise at whatever it is that you do. The deeper that you go into your own story, the more you mine that story. the more credible you become in the eyes of the people, not in terms of, like, these are my degrees, this is what I know. I mean, I don't know how many of you know how many degrees I have, but, you know, it's disgusting. And the thing is, it's like, you don't care. You just care about what I can do for you. So… I… I think that if you… Cast aside most of the crap that you've ever been told about marketing, because it's generally written for business-to-consumer brands.

and you start to think about the things that he's saying, which is, if I go to a conference, how do I become the most memorable person in the room? If I'm gonna spend $10,000 on having a booth that wraps, how do I make sure that that's the only booth that people remember? If I'm gonna give away something at a conference, it's not gonna be some stupid thing that you squeeze in your hand with our logo on it. Stop being stupid. Stop being a lemming. Do something original. Say something original. Tell me something that I don't already know. Don't bore me. And don't sell at me. I don't want that. None of us want that.

You know?

If I could jump in, Tina, you said you'd like to hear my opinion, so I'm leaning in on that.

Absolutely.

So, you're right, if you're at a… I want to go one level deeper, and not like I'm… it's not a challenge, but I want to go deeper, right? So…

Yeah.

If I want to be memorable at a conference at the CES show, I could have a dancing monkey there, right? And everybody would remember the booth with the dancing monkey.

Yes.

I could have an espresso machine and have a lot of traffic at the booth. None of those engagements are significant and valuable. A very, very small percentage of them. I've got so many free coffees, I can't even tell you the name of the booth.

Yeah.

Right? I saw the BMWs screaming through the CES show. Don't care. I drive an diesel F350 on my ranch, right? And I was there. As an example.

Yep.

So telling my story, I think is okay, but being able to anchor my narrative in the client, in the prospect's story. is where I start getting into more, valuable engagement.

Yeah.

For the sake of a transaction.

Absolutely.

And I was just curious if you had a path, a strategy, an approach to anchor the narrative there. So, you know, I teach this, right? I've got a process… let me share my screen. I got a quick process, I'll be quick. I was trying to get from your perspective, like, for me, is rapport. Like, hey, I like dancing monkeys, but trust, it's not relevant for my business, as an example, right? You can't get trust easily without rapport. You can't move to problem identification. No one's going to show you their dirty laundry unless they trust you and they like you. They might trust you, but not like you. Like, I trust Elon to be a smart person, I don't like him, I don't drive a Tesla. Period.

Right? As an example. We're not…

We're seeing your screen, really, we're just seeing your email.

Oh, I'm so sorry! Thank you for saying that. Wrong screen, I'm still not.

That's why you're trying to make a point of rapport through your email.

Yeah, no, no, my bad, no, my bad, I'm sorry. I should be smarter at this, Where am I? And desktop… I thought I was in desktop 2… Hmm… Let me try this one. Sorry.

Okay.

Are we seeing rapport?

Yep.

So, rapport, trust, problem identification, to me, these are linear. Right? You can't jump a step for the sake of a transaction and a close.

Yep.

So… Problem identification is where I'm trying to get at. That says, okay, now we're getting closer, right? So I do, I do content. To build rapport and trust.

Once I have that, I can say, hey.

Now we're having a conversation, now we can design a solution together. present, because you've helped me with the answer to bringing it in context, so when I present the solution, it could be a product, it could be a device to a medical hospital. to a hospital, then the negotiation goes easy because we've done it collaboratively, right? And from an efficiency, like, an effort standpoint. I have… I've been doing this for 8, 9 years. I say, hey, the introduction is good, getting to rapport and trust is where the foundation starts to happen. From a place of trust, you get to… collaboratively designing engagement, especially if you're doing marketing and stuff for that. I don't know why my computer's jumping around.

And then when everybody's aligned, you get to the close. So, from your perspective, I was just curious if, Because, you know, I think the left hand has to talk to the right hand in this more… in this… in our world right now. Because if the marketing folks, right, could produce a piece of content that engages, it sells rapport and trust really quickly, as an example, right? Oh my gosh, you guys… How did you know? I felt like he was speaking to me in that piece.

Yeah.

Right? And I can see the solution to my problem, and then I call that the opt-in close.

Yeah.

And I was curious, in this world, in this agentic AI space, as in quotes, the marketers, as you guys are, like, helping companies, our clients, my clients, tell the story. Do you all have a path, a hack, to get to that level of engagement?

Yeah, absolutely. The hack is discipline. And, I'm going to share a couple things quickly, and then I'm going to jump back to my, deck, because I do want to share an exercise that anybody.

Oh, sorry, yeah, go ahead.

specifically kind of for, to answer your question, is, like, kind of knowing your audience is extremely important. And I come from the world of branding that really kind of sets marketing and sales up for success, and really the fundamental is that there's two halves to branding. One is identifying what we call your unapologetic self. This is the line that I'm not gonna cross. This is who I am, this is the work that I do. By telling that story, it can help people kind of self-select whether they want to work with you. However, you can't just walk around in the world purely just being unapologetic.

You also then… this is the second half of branding, which is a discipline of defining your customer, or in, you know, just to throw out one jargon, is the ideal customer profile. You need to know who you're speaking to, because if you try to speak to everyone, you speak to no one. So, sometimes pissing people off might not be a bad thing. If you're pissing everybody off, that is a bad thing. But understanding who you need to talk… who you want to talk to. And how do you then kind of bridge your unapologetic self to meet people where they are? helps unlock, especially, kind of, Paul, thank you for sharing, kind of what you're sharing, because it unlocks the first couple of steps. But I think this is kind of where… this is kind of where it kind of really works with what you just shared, and we work with a lot of, kind of, sales kind of folks.

So basically, like, how do you help build trust and share what we, share your brand promise without you even needing to be there? And here's the thing about promises, is that… I can make any promise I want. The salesperson comes in and doesn't meet that promise, you have broken the trust.

Oh, totally.

even if you meet that promise from a sales process, your product doesn't meet the promise, you have broken that trust. So, I hopefully kind of that…

And then when the service guy shows up and breaks the promise, it's even worse. I keep telling my clients, your customer's having one conversation with your brand. Every… talk about the omnichannel. Everybody's gotta be on the same page. Yeah.

Absolutely. And okay, so I want to kind of just jump into this, part of exercise, kind of for the last 10 minutes, just to kind of share with you how to kind of formulate your own personal story. And I think I've, you know, and this take… will take a little bit of practice, and I'm just gonna, anchor, kind of, this part to the story of Spider-Man. So, I think most of us, if I ask you. how did Spider-Man, how did Peter Parker become Spider-Man? I'm sure kind of most of you will tell, tell me that it's when the radioactive spider kind of bit Peter Parker and he became Spider-Man. But… I would kind of challenge that, because Peter Parker, when he was bit by the radioactive spider, the first instinct is, how can I make money off of my new superpower?

I'm gonna go join the circus, and I will be rich! And then that's kind of when the story kind of unfolds, where, you know, his Uncle Ben was killed, and he realized that he could have stopped the robber who killed Uncle Ben, and then he had this aha moment, this turning point, this, this, yeah, this aha moment where he realized, this is why I am given this power. And so, part of this kind of superhero origin story is all about establishing not your credibility, because, like Sean kind of said, you have a disgusting number of… Of, kind of, kind of credentials. So, what is that emotional credibility? How can we relate to you?

And maybe in, I can't remember if it's John or Paul said this, like, how can I see myself in you that we start building that rapport? So, in an effective kind of origin story, it goes beyond what you do, it is why you end up doing what you chose to do. And number two, this is the question that, especially if you're a startup. or have a partner or a customer, this is what they want to know, especially if you're a startup. How can I trust you to stick around even if they're going to get stuff? And the thing about, kind of, startups is that things always get tough. So why should I put my trust in you, my money.

Kind of new. How can I trust you with my money? How can I trust you with my time? How can I trust you with my company? And then number 3 is that your audience can often kind of feel more connected through kind of your failures than they are through your success. Showing up, and I think I've, Sean, covered this, is like, you show up and be the know-it-all. I was like, well, I don't trust you, and I can't see myself in you. So, oftentimes, a successful and effective origin story shares kind of where, Where you are, how do you get to where you are, and then vulnerability, once again, kind of starts to build that rapport.

So, I know that I've kind of shared this kind of deck already, so this is the exercise that you can do, kind of, for yourself, kind of, to think about, kind of, these questions. Number one is, like, what's the biggest fork in your road, what's the biggest fork in the road moment in your life? And where, what were you choosing between, and how… and why you ended up, well, why each one inspired you? And then, number two is, how did you end up making the choice that you ultimately made? What were you giving up, and what did you gain? And number 3 is when you look back at what you are doing currently, and then look back at what you were inspired, kind of when you were… when you were little, what was that common thread that connected them?

And this is kind of really a shorthand for us when we do, kind of longer, kind of, sessions, work sessions and working with clients over a span of time, is to help identify their unwavering truth. And I think, kind of, all of us have that, and we do the same thing with companies, is that, you know, what is true. Yesterday, that will remain true today, that will still remain true in the future. And finally, it's to take a deep breath. sit back and reflect for a moment. What are some of the things that made Hang on one second, I can't see my own question. Kahir, what are some of the things that made you passionate about what you do, Kat today?

So, as I mentioned kind of a little bit earlier, it's like, how do you make the story, when you are… pitching an idea, whether or not it's an academic setting, or in a startup, or you're making a sale, that you're not just there to just get a paycheck. Like, why should I trust you, Paul, that you can help solve my problem, even if we get to that collaborative stage? Like, oftentimes, like, being able to tell the story is like, hey, you know, I'm not just here to sell you something to make a paycheck. I genuinely can believe in the solution, and I'm here to truly understand, kind of, like, how we can help you.

And I think I'm kind of, having a little bit of insight, kind of now, kind of looking at your process. Sometimes, if it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit, and being able to direct people to the right fit. Perhaps it is much more valuable to the relationship than trying to force a round peg in a square hole. So, these are some of the questions, kind of, for you to think about, kind of, as you're crafting your origin story, and if you remember, I started, kind of, with, the three-headed monster, how it got to kind of where I am, kind of, today, how it collected those three heads, was just kind of an example of how, I have crafted my story, and by the way, actually a friend of mine helped me craft that story.

It actually helped me take a step back from my own life. to be able to see things clearly, because oftentimes when we see… when we look at our own lives, when we look at our own work, our own company, everything is important. So, find a friend. ask them some of these questions. It's like, ask them, like, what makes… why do you like me? Like, what about me? that you, that makes you trust me. And I think some of those insights, bring them into your story. Bring them into, kind of like, the next time that you talk about, where you meet somebody new. test it out. Try out kind of that story and see if it actually kind of makes a difference. Sometimes, you just have to do it a couple of times, and I have told that story probably…

several hundred times now, to really kind of hone in, and also kind of to steer that story kind of to the audience who I'm speaking to. So, kind of with that said, let's see, how much time do we have? We have 2 minutes left, so, I don't… I don't know if we have time for any more questions. I'm going to hand it back to you, Sean, to kind of wrap things up.

Can I ask a quick question?

Yes, absolutely.

I'm gonna admit something. I'm living in Switzerland, and and about 10 years ago, when I started my business, I think I did everything wrong at the first year. I'll just admit to it, okay? And there's a big cultural difference between North America and Switzerland. And I was so aggressive, I was in people's face, and my friend told me, you gotta get out of their face. Now, how do you repair, after you've done, you know, demolished your image? Is there any chance to repair it after 2 or 3 years, or, you know, if you say everything wrong? Do you have any tips there? I mean, there are cultural differences, yeah.

And, yeah, I think I learned quite a bit from my experiences now, but if you could give any tips on how to repair That would be great.

I'll just say that I'm not an expert in the Swiss culture, so I don't have the context. But I, you know, kind of what worked for me, and I would love to kind of hear from other people as well, but I feel like, kind of, we go through life, kind of picking up these lessons, oftentimes, kind of, like, through painful experiences. And I think one thing that, that, that, I, I've realized, kind of, in, especially, kind of, in communications and sales. is to kind of show up as yourself, and just be genuinely curious. I think kind of curiosity, asking questions, kind of always have led me kind of to places that I get a much deeper understanding of who

Of the other person, of the audience as well. And even kind of on stage, I think how sometimes, like, you know, maybe even come today, I'm like, well, I… hopefully I gave you kind of a lot to kind of think about, but I think kind of that curiosity, kind of, bringing people in, kind of that way, asking questions, Is the best way, rather than trying to have something that you are trying to, you know, kind of shove it down people's throats, because you think it's important for them to know. And, and Stephanie, I'm still learning, but I think how that's, you know, sharing out with curiosity is… is my best policy. So, but if anybody else have, have any thoughts,

Do you have any tips to sort of repair?

Yes, I do. The tip to repair is consistently show up differently. The difference between an amends and an apology is an amends is a change in behavior, and an apology is saying you're sorry. And so the thing is, is that when I… right after my brain surgery, I was on such a high dose of steroids that I showed up for clients in a way that was really aggressive, that was really kind of insane. And actually, somebody in my company was like, you're not allowed to talk to any potential clients anymore because you're really bananas these days. And you know, it's taken a couple years, but I was at RAPS recently, and some of the people that I absolutely turned off

came back and said, I've been watching the work that you've been doing, I've seen the progress that you've been making, and I'm interested in talking now. And that's after 2 years of them thinking, he's batshit crazy. I don't want to have anything to do with him, and running the opposite direction. So, Stephanie, my message to you is consistently show up differently. And they may change their mind, they may reconsider, they may not. That's not within your control, you know? That is… that is definitely something that… but you know what? They're always more fish in the sea.

Yeah, no, it's good, thanks. And the whole tip about listening, I think the Swiss society, you just have to listen and listen, listen, listen, listen. It's just… it was a little bit of a culture shock for me, so…

So, Stephanie, I think the good thing with, you know, the European cultures is that, honesty And logic make a lot of sense. And sometimes, an apology, and saying, hey, you know. have that conversation. I've had some, you know, I'm a bull in a china shop. Right? I was going through your exercise, I took a photograph of the screen, Tino, because it's really powerful, right? And, My whole career was shaped because I was the oddball out. freaking out the Hindu Indian classmates of mine. They would say stuff like, Mr. Paul, you're very bright. I'm like, what do you mean I'm very bright? I'm just me. I mean, I left India because of that, right? And now, like, the mob, they've sucked me back, and my main client is an Indian consulting company with 800 consultants.

And they can hear you.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot for.

For your tip, Paul. Sorry.

Yeah, so I wrote the approach over there, and I think, you know, allowing them to speak and apologize, and then saying, tell me how best to talk to you.

Yeah.

Thanks.

the first 5 years of my marriage to my Japanese wife, we couldn't communicate, and so we would email each other. We've never really had a serious argument in 18 years.

Wow.

Because we emailed, and literally, hey, I had a friend, like, my friend, my new wife, all my friends want to come over, and I'm like, hey, Bobby's coming in on Friday, and she's like, what? So then I'd email her, hey, this is my friend, here's his LinkedIn profile, he wants to come over for dinner, he's interested at this, would it be okay for him and his girlfriend to come over? I mean, literally, Google. I mean, Gmail. And then she'd have time to process it. That's awesome. You know, that's rapport, right? I call it the Tai Chi move. You get in sync with your person, any culture. You get… right now, I live in the Navajo. You… it's… you be calm enough to get in sync with that culture, and then you can flip them around.

And then get engaged, so… I call it the Tai Chi move.

But anyway, you guys have a good rest of the day. Thank you, Tino. Thank you. Thank you, Tino, for your time. Thank you, everybody, for sharing this hour with us. As I've mentioned, not planning on meeting next week, might meet on the 2nd. Watch your emails. I'm thinking about doing a preview of 2026, particularly for MLVX members, but for anybody, because lots of huge stuff happening next year. And lots of speaking opportunities, lots of publishing opportunities, lots of ways of getting yourself in front of a larger audience. So, you know, stay tuned.

Tina. Excellent presentation. Any closing thoughts for our little people here?

I ain't a friend. Ask them why they trust you, I think you will learn a lot.

Excellent advice. Okay, well, thank you again.

And Pete, and Pete, I had a question about the slides. It's the Google slide, the Google Doc slide above, Pete. Slides are you already posted.

I don't know.

Yeah. Alright, unfold.

Nice to meet y'all.

Thank you so much.

Happy Holidays. Take care.

Hi, everyone.

I…

Thanks.